I can't believe Dave Winer is using your experience to somehow justify his thought process and angry "product manager" mindset. Actually I can believe it, since its his typical pattern. He seems to stew on these things for days.

http://scriptingnews.userland.com/2003/04/26#When:4:14:24AM

Hey Dave, bugs happen.

But cast not the first stone. Run the W3C Validator (both XHTML and CSS) against moveabletype.org and the CSS within... it validates perfectly. And their stuff looks good.

Then try it against most of the sites that Radio spits out.

That magic liason between users and developers - is best done by someone who isn't hyped up on ego and anger.

Call it Product Manager. Chief Listener. Whatever. Product Managers are supposed to listen to users - customers after all - not speak over them. Not tell them to put their hands under their ass and think, when folks try to engage you in thoughtful discussion.

Its not like the product manager role is new, after all, despite you making it out to be a revelation the other day (and then pulling your blog entry and all the comments after being challenged).

Pointing out challenges in CSS will get you know where Dave. There are f*ing challenges in making table based layouts look good.

To use your own words, why not channel this negative force into postive energy and do something useful with it.

Poor Ryan. Dave's not allowing comments on his blog makes Ryan's fair game for continuing the discussion. :)

It is interesting that Dave pointed out Ryan's complaint. The issue Ryan raises (and correct me if I'm wrong) is regarding the MT template, not CSS itself. A poor implementation of a standard does not denegrate the standard. I'm an awful programmer when it comes to Java—that doesn't make Java irrelevant.

Anyway, Ryan, I dig your blog. I just added your RSS feed to my reader. :) Take care.